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9-11 Feels

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9-11 Feels

Unread postby KingCrazyGenius on Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:07 pm

Unread postby KingCrazyGenius » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:07 pm

Namely I feel kinda bad. Or at least I feel like I should feel bad about not feeling bad about the fact that I don't feel much of anything. Bunch of my friends are posting reminiscences of where they were and what they did 12 years ago with all this emotion and heartbreak and stuff, whereas I just went to school, thought it was exciting in the way heartless teenage boys often view distant disasters, and eventually when the teachers decided to turn off the news in the classroom I jokingly protested that we were watching history being made.

Even today, despite living in the very city it happened, there's no emotional significance. I intellectually recognize that it was a terrible thing, but it personally means nothing to me, other than my growing outrage at how politicians have used it to turn this country into a debt-ridden police state that no one with any real power is interested in stopping.

EDIT: And I also feel weird about how I feel more comfortable being honest about this with you guys than I do with my IRL friends. I'm not really a heartless bastard, but I don't care about this, and I think that might be enough to alienate me.
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Re: 9-11 Feels

Unread postby Flak on Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:29 pm

Unread postby Flak » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:29 pm

It was the Pearl Harbor of an invisible World War 3 that has been raging quietly for decades.

A welcome disaster upon which our powerful could capitalize.

It sounds cynical, but it's realistic. We have real proof that FDR let Pearl Harbor happen. How many years do you think it will be before Americans can accept that 9/11—while maybe not an inside job—was certainly anticipated and allowed? How many years before that doesn't sound like a conspiracy theory?

Of course the event was tragic.

But we do worse things to ourselves with our transit policies, our weapons policies. (Yearly gun deaths in America due to cars and guns are heftier than that single tragedy.) And that doesn't even go into the suffering caused by the top-down class warfare occurring in our states on a daily basis. People starve and go to prison because of wealth inequality. This is a problem we could solve. These are all problems we could solve. We don't solve them.

Instead of solving them, we turn around and do far worse things to other nations.

For its toll on a community, I am sad about 9/11.

But for its toll on America?

:ajunsure:
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Re: 9-11 Feels

Unread postby KingCrazyGenius on Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:33 pm

Unread postby KingCrazyGenius » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:33 pm

Good points. I do actually find our rabid imprisonment and suicide and car accident rates far more tragic than 9/11.

EDIT: Though the idea that the US government was actively anticipating a large scale terrorist attack, or even 9/11 itself, is something I haven't encountered yet, though FDR being able to prevent Pearl Harbor sounds plausible. And I guess so does this. Unfortunately.
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Re: 9-11 Feels

Unread postby Flak on Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:02 pm

Unread postby Flak » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:02 pm

FDR moved new, expensive boats and planes, as well as well-trained troops, from Pearl Harbor right before the attack. The attack took out old infrastructure and (relatively) worthless weapons/vehicles (as well as people...). I don't recall where one can find this info but it's basically accepted fact amongst everyone I've talked to about it. I'm sure you could research/investigate if you wanted, though you'll probably find crackpot conspiracy theories as well if you do a search.

As for 9/11, it really feels like the same kind of thing. A catalyst for involvement in military activity. Something about which there was almost certainly advanced knowledge (and that's not even going into some of the very plausible theories of US involvement IN the attack. I know those are contentious and am not taking them as a premise). I dunno, it's uncanny. We also blew up one of our own ships in order to spark the Spanish-American War. It's an ancient tactic. :(
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Re: 9-11 Feels

Unread postby Saurus on Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:37 pm

Unread postby Saurus » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:37 pm

As a non-American, I have no feelings about 9/11. After so many years it doesn't even get a mention on the radio news anymore, I just realized. At least not that I noticed, at any rate.

I wasn't even all that impressed when the event occurred. Admittedly, I was more into computer games than world events at that age. My next door same-age neighbor was really upset about it though, even implying World War 3 several times.
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Re: 9-11 Feels

Unread postby Alar on Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:12 pm

Unread postby Alar » Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:12 pm

MY feels are pretty limited here. I was pretty damn young when 9/11 happened (I think sixth grade?), and while it was shocking and very strange at the time (I'm not even certain if we fully understood what was happening), and it's very unfortunate, in strict terms of numbers, more people die per day on average than did in the 9/11 attacks, and there aren't big news stories about it. Yes, one reason is because it was all centralized, and yes, another reason was because we're the UNITED STATES and we never imagined terrorists attacking us in such a large and dramatic way before, but I think that thinking is kind of annoying. Certainly those people dried in tragic (and in some cases heroic) ways, but more people die every day (in the United States) and few people bat an eyelash at it.

So yes, it was sad and terrible, but worse things happen. If there's one thing I think people should take a little bit seriously from Putin's speech is the whole 'American exceptionalism' thing. We're no better than anyone else, and just because something shocking happens to us doesn't make it unique or special, just sad like all the others.
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Re: 9-11 Feels

Unread postby Karamazov on Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:03 pm

Unread postby Karamazov » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:03 pm

No, it is not realistic that the United States government would allow a terrorist attack on the Pentagon.
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Re: 9-11 Feels

Unread postby KingCrazyGenius on Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:06 pm

Unread postby KingCrazyGenius » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:06 pm

So what you're saying is America has been dead since 9/10/01?

Never mind that was a stupid joke. Okay maybe I'm too easily suckered into conspiracy theories.
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Re: 9-11 Feels

Unread postby Alar on Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:56 pm

Unread postby Alar » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:56 pm

Karamazov wrote:No, it is not realistic that the United States government would allow a terrorist attack on the Pentagon.

You say 'allow' as if they have any control over it. The world is a far more dangerous and turbulent place than we know, and our concepts of safety are a flimsy illusion taped over a chain link fence at best.
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Re: 9-11 Feels

Unread postby Karamazov on Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:49 pm

Unread postby Karamazov » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:49 pm

I was responding to Flak:
How many years do you think it will be before Americans can accept that 9/11—while maybe not an inside job—was certainly anticipated and allowed?


The executive branch and the military benefited from the attack, but that does not mean they caused it. Remember that most people who commit atrocious acts think themselves justified. The example of FDR anticipating Pearl Harbor --- which is far from being supported by "real proof" --- can at least suggest a reasonable motivation: the sacrifice of a distant population in order to turn the tide of a world war. But the U.S. government allowing the bombing of a major financial center in a major financial/political city (i.e., a target with very close ties to the government and the social/family spheres of the people in power), not to mention the Pentagon itself? You don't take risks like that for such nebulous and unambitious goals as "make my temporary position of power more powerful and maybe a few years longer".
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Re: 9-11 Feels

Unread postby KingCrazyGenius on Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:18 pm

Unread postby KingCrazyGenius » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:18 pm

Flak seems to think that the real power is pretty much outside of the hands of elected officials anyways, so I think he would be saying that the military industrial complex and stuff like that are the ones who allowed and anticipated 9/11.
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